Didn't Fix Windows Restore Problems

[jcjules]

Thanks for the effort, but your Beta didn't work for me.  When I installed Roxio NXT, it included a program "BackOnTrack 4".  BackOnTrack 4 tried to replace Windows Restore as the means of creating restore points and making system images.  Unfortunately, BackOnTrack didn't install corrrectly - and it ended up making both itself and Windows Restore inoperative.  In Control Panel/System, I am able to turn "on" Restore for my system drive (an SSD), but when I go into Control Panel/Backup Restore and try to open System restore, it tells me (incorrectly) that Restore is not turned on for any drive.  Before the problem with BackOnTrack, I had multiple Windows Restore Points - as well as Image Backups.  Unfortunately, when I try to Restore from them - I get an error message saying that the system could not boot from the restore image - so the system is being returned to its original state.  I get the same error, when I run Restore from my emergency Windows disk.  Bottom line is that Windows Restore is completely inoperative in terms of creating new backups, or restoring from old ones - and your utility didn't appear to have any impact at all.  Thanks for trying.  Anybody got any ideas?

[Shane]

The beta repair right now just puts some reg keys back and fixes some file permissions. Yours sounds like it is broken much deeper.

Lets dig in and see what we can find, perhaps I can find something to add to the repair

What version of Windows are you on currently?

Shane

[jcjules]

Hi Shane:  It's great to talk to the "big dog".  OK here are some additional details.  I run Windows 7, 64 bit.  My system files are on a 240 GB SSD drive, with all program and data files on a pair of 2 TB SATA drives.  Before this problem, I used Windows Restore to create a restore point before installing new software, and otherwise, every 30-60 days.  In addition, I used BackOnTrack 3 to create a complete image of my C and D drives every 30 - 60 days.  The installation problem with BackOnTrack 4 occurred 11/21/12.  When I first recognized the problem, I thought that I had only an installation problem - I was unaware that it had caused underlying problems with Windows Restore.  So, for the next 6 weeks, I traded emails with Roxio Support trying to get BackOnTrack 4 to uninstall and re-install correctly.  A few days ago, I got the idea of re-setting my system files back to 11/21/12 and starting "clean."  When I went to Windows Restore, it said that Restore was turned off on all drives.  After turning Restore on (in Control Panel/Systems), I created a Restore Point.  When I went to Windows Restore, however, it said that that day's Restore POint was the only one that existed.  Windows could not see the dozens of other Restore POints that I had created prior to 11/21/12.  I went to my E hard drive and confirmed that I still had a 560 GB Windows Image folder from my prior backups - but Windows couldn't see it.  I tried booting from my Windows Emergency Disk, System Restore.  That disk was able to see the Image Files on my E drive, but when I selected and restored a system date prior to 11/21/12, I got an error message saying that Windows could not re-boot with the new settings, and so the computer had been restored to its original condition - with no changes.  I had the same results with my BackOnTrack 3 images.  When I restored a system image prior to 11/21/12, the system could not re-boot, and so the changes were deleted and the system was restored to its original condition.  So, I have dozens of system images - but none of them will work to re-set the system to before the 11/21/12 problem.  Unless you have a better idea, my plan for today was to uninstall all of the Roxio/BackonTrack programs - including the prior versions that were working correctly - to see if the uninstall programs will do anything to re-set the Windows Restore registry errors.  If that doesn't work, I'm frustrated enough with this problem to simply format my SSD drive and reinstall Windows.  I know that that means that I will have to reinstall all of my programs, but, since all of my data is still secure on my D and E drives, it may be the easiest way to GUARANTEE that my OS is working correctly.  Suggestions?

[Shane]

Before you do a fresh reinstall a repair install may work and keep all your programs.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/3413-repair-install.html

But lets wait on doing that.

First lets see if this is a system restore problem or a problem with the old restore points instead.

Can you create a new restore point and if you can then try to restore the new point that was just created?

If you can then system restore is fine and the problem will be with the restore points instead.

Shane

[jcjules]

Dear Shane:

I went to Control Panel/Systems and tried to creat a Restore Point.  The "creating restore point" window opened - and ran for 15 minutes - with no progress noted on the progress bar.  In the past, it has taken less than a minute to create a restore point, so I'm pretty sure that the Restore process is not working correctly.  I used "ctrl""alt"del" to stop the process after 15+ minutes.

So, if we assume that the "Restore" process itself is what is corrupted, what options do I have to get it working again?

Thanks also for the advice regarding a "repair" option.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure that my Windows 7 disk will allow that option.  I bought this machine as a custom build and the seller delivered a Windows 7 disk marked "Intended for distribution with a new PC" and the brochure that came in the case describes it as "OEM" software.  As I understand your article, the OEM will do a clean install, but not a repair.  Right?  By the way, if I have to do a clean install, am I going to have an activation problem with Microsoft - when I try to activate a product that has already been activated?  Do I need to do something special to de-activate the currrent OS before I attempt to re-install from the disk?

[Shane]

OK lets check to see if these service will startup for you (Do you know how to get to the services?)

Virtual Disk Service
Volume Shadow Copy
wbengine

As for the repair install a OEM disk will work just fine. The only difference between retail and OEM is the key that comes with it, nothing else. And if anything you can download a ISO of Windows 7 with SP1 already on it if yours doesn't have SP1 already (You will need one with SP1 to do the repair install anyways). The only thing MS cares about is the keycode. And as long as it isnt being used on another system you can active it again just fine.

You can get the ISO if you need it here
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/software-os/w/microsoft_os/3316.2-1-microsoft-windows-7-official-iso-download-links-digital-river.aspx

As for the system restore lets check those services and go from there

Shane

[jcjules]

Dear Shane:

Ok.  Went to services.  Volume Shadow Copy was marked "manual" "started".  Virtual Disk was marked "manual" "stopped".  I started Virtual Disk, so both it and Volume Shadow Copy were running.

My services did NOT include a "wbengine" service.

As for using the Windows disk to try to do a repair, instead of a reinstall, that's great news.  My disk is marked SP1.  So, when I go for it, I will most definitely try the repair first (before resorting to the reinstall).

[Shane]

Sorry wbengine is the "Block Level Backup Engine Service" service.

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

Found the third service.  It started.  I have all three running.  What do I do with them?

[Shane]

OK good so the services are running. Now lets see if it might be a problem with the volume shadow copy service.

See if you can do a reg backup with my program here
http://www.tweaking.com/content/page/registry_backup.html

It will try to use the volume shadow copy service to backup the reg. If VSS fails it will use the fallback method of the API. Post the backup log when you do and the vss log it makes

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

No luck.  It ran for 10 minutes with a "waiting for snapshot" window showing.  See screen shot below.  As far as I can tell, it never went to the backup method and no log was created.

[Shane]

Great!

Why? because this tells me where the problem is. The system restore uses the volume shadow copy. Since the system isnt making a vss snapshot this explains why restore isnt working.

I have somethings here to try and get vss working
http://www.tweaking.com/articles/pages/tweaking_com_registry_backup_online_help,2.html

Try each one, one at a time and let me know which one works. If it works I can add it to the repair

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

Sorry, no luck.

I downloaded and ran the two utilities in solution 1 - and rebooted.  I again ran the registgry backup and got the same result - it froze while "waiting for snapshot."

The other solutions in your link appeared to apply to earlier Windows versions, so I didn't try any of them.  I did check the key in solution 2 and found no "bak" entires.

I am eager to try your next suggestion, but I need to leave the office and catch a train home in a few moments.  I won't be in the office with access to this machine again until tomorrow afternoon.  So, until tomorrow afternoon - BYE for NOW.  THANKS for all of your efforts.  They are appreciated.

Julian

[Shane]

Ok tomorrow try #6 & #7

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

I am thrilled to report "progress" - on two fronts.

First, I ran the Solutions 6 & 7 from your list.  7 was OK.  Microsoft 1.0 was the only service running.
Solution 6 was more exciting.  When I ran the "list writers" command, I got 10 writers, but no errors.  When I ran the "Delete shadows /all" command, I got a prompt to confirm deletion of 4 existing shadow copies.  I deleted those 4 copies, and rebooted.

After the reboot, I again tried your registry backup.  This time IT WORKED.  I made a copy of the registry!
So, I went to Control Panel/System, to try to create a Restore Point.  This time IT WORKED.  I got a confirmation that a Restore Point had been successfully completed.

With a new restore point, I tried your final test - could I restore from that point?  We continue to have a problem on that step.  See JPG file attached.  When I opened "system restore" I continued to get the error message saying that restore was not turned on.  From the picture attached, you can see that restore is indeed enabled on my system (C) drive, but Windows doesn't see it.  When I go to Control Panel/Backup Restore and select Restore, I get an empty window - i.e. Windows doesn't "see" the Restore Point that I just created.

So, we are now able to create a Restore POint - we just haven't figured out how to get the computer to use it.  PS - remember that when I tried booting with my emergency disks, I was able to "see" all of my prior Restore Points - but when I tried to restore from one of them, I got the message that Windows couldn't boot from the restored system , so all changes were being deleted.  If you want me to, I can try the emergency disk again, and see how the system reacts to the new restore point.  Obviously, however, I would prefer to try to get the system to "see" its own restore points - rather than having to rely on emergency disks.

Now, I also said I had other "progress" to report.  I finally got some "useful" information from the help desk of the software (Roxio BackOnTrack) that caused all of these problems.  Note, however, that they are also vigorously denying that their software caused this problem - and are hinting that they are getting ready to cut off further attempts to solve the issue.

The "useful" information that I got from Roxio is that BackonTrack is designed to "disable" the Windows' Restore features, and replace them with the Roxio utilities.  Since Roxio would need to be able to "re-enable" the Windows Restore if Roxio is ever uninstalled, I infer that the Roxio program most likely added some command to the registry file to suppress the operation of the Windows Restore, and replace it with the Roxio software.  If that is the case, then I may be able to solve my problem simply by tracking what changes Roxio made to my Registry file - and low and behold - the Roxio help desk asked me to email them a log file that appears to contain that exact information.  Unfortnately, that log file is "over my head" - I can't tell what is "normal" and what is a "no no".  Perhaps you can make sense of that log file????   I also attach that log file.

Please advise as to what you recommend that I try next.

THANKS for your Solution #6, the only progress that I have had after 2 months of chasing this problem!!!

[Shane]

I bet it is those reg keys they changed. The log file does include the reg keys they changed, just do a search through it for the word HKEY and you will find them all.

So this is good, I will add the delete old shadow copies to the repair, then once we find what reg keys they changed I can add those keys to the repair as well

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

I'm sorry, but I am ready to give up and just re-install everything.

I did a search for HKEY in the Roxio log files and found the registry keys referenced in the log.  However, I didn't have a clue about how to change them back to what they were before Roxio was installed.  Do I delete the key?  Do I change the value to 1 or 0?  I just don't know.  I can't even tell what existed before that Roxio changed versus what are new keys that Roxio added.  Without knowing this, I was afraid to change anything.

Second, the article that you sent me earlier about Windows repair says that I can't do a repair until I change all "paths and shortcuts" back to the Windows defaults.  Because my system drive is an SSD, I changed the default of where my programs are installed to my D drive.  So, before I can even attempt a repair, I would have to change back to the default path and then go through every start menu item/shortcut and change it from D to C drive.  That is several hours of work before I can even attempt a repair.

That is doable, except for my third concern.  A Windows repair would not remove the two Roxio programs that caused this problem.  Those two programs plus whatever they added to the registry would still be there after the repair.  So, if something they added to registry (rather than something that they changed in Windows) is what is causing the problem - it would still be there after the repair.

I've just spent too many hours trying to repair this problem - to invest that many more hours on a solution that I can't guarantee will work.

If I can send you any additional information to help you build your utility, please let me know.  I really owe you a big one for all of your effort on my behalf.

Julian

[Shane]

Well the repair will already be better since I will add the removing of old snap shots.

What you could od, if you dont mind is make a export of each reg key that roxio changed.

Then when you do a fresh install you can go and grab those keys again and we can she how they changed.

Then With those keys I can do some reason on what they are for and that would help a lot in finding the reg keys to add to my repair

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

I am going to try to get you the information that you have requested.

I have attached a text file showing all of the Roxio log HKEY references.  However, when I go into RegEdit to Export those keys, they are missing.  Does that mean that Roxio deleted them?  Or perhaps, the three that refer to Local_Machine32 are trying to tell me that the Roxio install checks for these different Keys in different OS environments - i.e. a 32 bit, rather than a 64 bit, system???

As I said before, the log file is simply too far over my head to be of any use to me.

I am going to finish doing my backups to get ready to reinstall Windows.  after I get a new OS up and running, I'll take another look at the Registry to see if the referenced keys exist.

How about this idea for living dangerously?  After I get the OS up and running, why not export a full registry backup - and then reinstall Roxio and do a second full registry backup.  A comparison of the two should give you an exact roadmap of all changes.  Right?  If Roxio screws up again, it won't be that big a deal to reinstall Windows yet again.  On the other hand, after all of this effort, I would really like to use the Roxio program that I paid for.  As for you, having the two registries to compare may be exactly what you need.  Interested?

Thanks,

Julian

[Shane]

We could do that, but we need a program that is designed to compare changes.

We could use the demo version of this (Dont pay for it, only use the demo)
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Active-Registry-Monitor.shtml

Shane

[jcjules]

Hi Shane:

I've tried to send you the message copied below three times - but each time the "upload" meter stops at 0% and won't proceed.  I presume that your server is concerned about the attached copies of my registry as being dangerous.  If you want the registry files, please respond with some alternate way to send them to you.  Thanks.

Failed Message:
Hi Shane:

I'm happy to report that after two days of work re-installing Windows - and all of my programs - everything seems to be working correctly - including the Windows Restore.

Before beginning the Windows re-install, I took a snapshot of my Registry.  After re-installing Windows and verifying that Windows Restore was working correctly, I took a snapshot of my registry.  Then I immediately reinstalled the Roxio Creator NXT program - which included the BackOnTrack 4 program - and took another registry snapshot.  The only difference between the last two should be the result of installing the package of Roxio programs.  The first snapshot should give you a reference to any of the keys changed in 2/3 - to see what was messed up.

Good luck with your utility program.  It is wonderful having guys like you out there.

Julian

[Shane]

You can always just send it to my email

shane [at] tweaking [dot] com

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

I'm sorry, but even after running them through WinZip, the files are too big - 12MG, 14MG and 19MG.  They timed out when I tried to send them via Outlook, and also when I tried to send them through my ISP, Comcast.

Can I put them on a disk and mail them to you?

Julian

[Shane]

Upload them to sendspace.com

Shane

[jcjules]

Shane:

www.sendspace.com worked.  The files are in your email account.  Good luck with them.